Tuesday, June 22, 2010

To the Amazin Avenue Community

I normally wouldn't do this (and also, just about nobody gives a crap about "blogger, responding to blogger for criticizing original blog" posts) but I was pretty taken aback at the fierceness of the post published by Sam Page over at Amazin Avenue this evening.

Let me start by saying to Sam Page, individually, that I am sorry if you feel like I somehow personally attacked you in my prior post. It certainly wasn't my intent. In fact, the reason that I even bothered to link to Amazin Avenue and what you wrote is because, in particular, I respect the blog and its writers, and I find that what it has to say is relevant. It matters. It's not any other internet blog noise. Because of this, I did not intend to call you out or start "blog warz".

None of this, however, makes the response posted tonight any petulant. If you had wanted to engage me in some sort of conversation about the Mets roster moves on either a macro (they are good or they are bad) or micro (the GMJ move was okay or the GMJ move was awful) level, I would have loved to do that. But to have the entire article parsed in some kind of juvenile, Fire Joe Morgan style type of thrashing is way beneath the quality of most Amazin Avenue content. Certainly, it is misleading at best to claim that I was advocating that "we should be kissing [the] feet" of Mets management.

The reason this matters is because Amazin Avenue is the current standard bearer for forward-thinking Mets fans on the internet. The discourse that takes place - both by the bloggers and the commenters - is so much more advanced than that which can be found on any other blog, newspaper, or local bar, that it is amazing. I look forward on a regular basis to reading the work of Eno Sarris, Eric Simon, and Howard Megdal. I enjoy the links that we at Fonzie Forever get on a regular basis from Joe Budd and James Kannengeiser and the comments that follow.

I take solace in the fact that so many of the commenters over at Amazin Avenue who seem to have actually read my blog post seem to be in agreement that my basic point was not so unreasonable. The Mets have made a lot of the right decisions this year. Basically every single one of those old-timey blogger meltdowns that we used to have (remember "Free Heath Bell?!") has been addressed.

As I said in the original article:
No, they haven't been perfect. No, not all the moves have come as soon as we may have liked them. And no, they have not yet gone out on a limb with the sabermetric folk and done some of the very outside-the-box things we would like them to. But the basics? The obvious moves? And even some of the not-so-obvious ones that we simply wish they would make? They've made them.

* * *

Perhaps I'm setting the bar too low for their performance. Should Mejia have been in the minors all year? Probably. Should Jacobs have ever touched the field of play as a Met? Arguable. But the point is that once those issues were no longer matters of debate, for which there was a defensible position, the Mets bit the bullet and made the correct choice.

* * *

We shouldn't be falling over ourselves to praise the Mets for getting themselves out of pickles that they created... So yes, the Mets haven't been perfect. But since the clock turned to 2010, they have been very, very good.

To the Amazin Avenue community, thanks to those of you who clicked through to read. It is a pleasure knowing that we've had a place in the ongoing discourse surrounding our team - hopefully one which has had a positive impact on our enjoyment of the game as fans. I hope that you will continue to challenge me when you disagree, but also that you approach my ideas (some of which are very outside-the-box) with an inquisitive mind.

And to Mr. Page, I am once again sorry that you felt compelled to respond to my original entry in the manner that you did. Next time, before you go ahead and call the writing of other members of the community "laughable", "nauseating", and "ridiculous", please take a moment to reconsider. Instead of a flame-war, this could have been an opportunity to discuss issues and allow your readers to make up their own minds.

I wish you the best, and figure that you will soon realize that there is a reason why boys blogging from their mother's basements do not recieve offers to become major league general managers.

Note: If anyone actually would like to discuss some of the issues raised in the original blog, I would be interested in discussing them.

As I've mentioned, I don't think that the GMJ trade was terrible. There is a distinct value to a commodity that is reliable, even if it is reliably poor. Between that, and the comment about Tejada remaining in the majors (we could have used Cora instead), there is plenty to talk about.


Sam said...

I do regret my tone re-reading it now, but I was pretty hyped up at the time. Maybe not out of any personal offense, but at the general sentiment. Sorry if you were offended.

I don't get your shot at me there at the end, though? The reason why boys in their mother's basements don't get offers to become GMs? Besides the obvious?

Or are you just wishing me the best then calling me an immature child?

Whatever, good luck with your site.

MetsKnicksRutgers said...

Sam, you were pretty abrasive in your response, and I agree with your sentiment. At AA we can get snarky at times but it is usually in response to the paternal attitude we get from the metsmerized and burckhardts of the world who think that, because we are young, and smart, either finishing up post grad degrees or undergrads at esteemed schools, we know nothing about baseball and turn it into a game of morse code. Brians opinion is a fair one, but it does cut far too much slack for the mets FO. The flame warz was unnecessary but brian's statement at the end just once again fueled the flames of something that you tried to end. Let's just end this. Brian obviously respects what we do over at AA and both sides kind of went about it in the wrong way.

Lastly, we all have bigger things to worry about. Manuel potential extension, frenchy playing full time over our favorite contradictorally named player, Johan (maybe) he is hitting 92 on the gun still I just think his control has been the problem recently and that will probably change and finally s bullpen that really needs igarashi to step up. Let's hope the winning ways continue tonight and that Brian is right and omar may actually be listening to somebody like Ben baumer and looking at this team in a sabr slanted view.

Andy said...

Gimme a break. This blog is such a joke. Sam, you don't have to apologize for anything. Your attitude was completely warranted - if you write something that 1) follows no logic 2) contradicts facts and 3) is literally LOL worthy, you have every right to get skewered. Own up to the fact that you wrote something "laughable", "nauseating", and "ridiculous". You don't even retort any of Sam's arguments or comments - all you do is say "hey please take it easy on me, lets have a discussion and make friends" - How can we have actual discourse when you don't even make one sound counter argument? Your final comment is rude, pathetic and a clear cheap shot - it literally contradicts everything you tried to achieve in the post. Do us all a favor and stop writing. BTW - best part of the post is when you talk about your "outside the box ideas" and how we need to take your revelations with an "inquisitive mind" - Don't insult my intelligence.

Brian Mangan said...

Andy, I'm sorry that you were unable to follow the very simple logic contained in my original post. Also, I have yet to see where anything was contradictory.

As I said, I'd love to have a discussion about these Mets moves. I wasn't going to respond to Sam's post in kind because I didn't want to devolve into some kind of FJM-style flame war. I had a lot to say to the individual points he made (or alluded to, between snarky comments).

I like Sam, I like Amazin Avenue, and I had no desire to dig back and forth at each other with insults.

If you don't like my attitude of "lets have a discission and make friends" then you can go f*** yourself. Stop trolling.

Oh, and yeah, that final comment was rude. I regret making it but I think I showed pretty good restraint for the majority of the response.

Brandon said...

Not to stir up any more controversy because I do understand that both sides are trying to get over this whole thing..BUUUTTT.. I do have to say that I will start reading Fonzie Forever over Amazin Ave simply bc of the fact that I was in search of another blog than Metsblog. I originally loved Amazin' and their recaps are definitely first rate. With that being said, I recently had to stop reading and stop even going to the page because they are so pessimistic. I mean we have a choice to look at the future of the Mets with either a positive outlook or a negative one, and anytime Amazin Ave had a chance, they would look on with a negative point of view and constantly cut down management as if they were Major League managers themselves (rather than BLOGGERS!!). They bring up stats and say something like - 'so, once again the Mets made a horrible decision with this one.' - Rather than looking at stats and saying 'Hopefully they can improve what they have been doing' . Simple pessimism vs optimism. I actually find this alot on SB Nation (host site of Amazin) - the bloggers and followers of the page start a little fraternity of kids who think they are all the best General Managers to ever live, and in reality usually haven't played past high school ball. As you can see by our friend Andy above, he was hazed by AA and is obviously having some kind of bad day with those aggressive comments.

Anyways, because of this whole rift between the two sites, I have found Fonzie, and will continue to read Fonzie based on the fact that I now know one site seems to be more optimistic than the other!

Anonymous said...

Please stop sullying the good name of FJM. FJM is/was not "juvenile", nor did they have flame-wars, meaning there is no such thing as an "FJM-style flame war". They dissected articles about baseball in a humorous way. They did not engage in angry tit-for-tats with the subjects of their mockery, nor were they ever really even serious.

Sam said...

Yea the whole thing is pretty regrettable. I like this site and I'm embarrassed by the personal attacks my readers have engaged in at my incitement. I actually have subscribed to fonzie forever for a while in my rss and have linked on my homepage thesampage.com (a reminder to myself, no traffic favor to you guys).